Mary Lou McFarland

Tyler Ludens... what is your soil like. It is mind boggling that it would take fifty acres to feed one horse. I'm not doubting you but ...Holy Smokes!!! We figure two acres per horse here in southern Iowa. I have been looking at quite a few videos on hand baling hay. I am thinking of doing enough small manual bales for my own two that all of my large, baled on shares, bales could be sold. I can only hope.

I also use the Parelli method of training and I have to say that if it weren't for the horses, I probably would have never been brought to permaculture. And as far as their value.... they eat what others don't. They fill a niche with other grazers and through that they add to the health of any pasture. Last year I got suckered into buying nine hundred dollars worth of composted cow manure. Big mistake!!! for the nine hundred I could have just added a bit more and would have been able to buy a mini spreader. The cow manure introduced so much weed seed that it nearly ruined my hayfield. I am building a custom blend horse hay so needless to say there was a good amount of rage. Chicken and horse manure from now on!

On having minis... it is more important to choose by temperment. I have seen some that were rascals and some that thought they were Man O'War. But they were bred to be pit ponies so they provided a lot of labor on rather mean provisions. Hitch one to a cart and watch it go! they are more than capable. They don't eat much and then there is the poop! If you need a little more muscle, step up to a pony. I have a welsh mountain pony sec. A. They are very economical in the feed department. I also have a haflinger. she is on the big end of the breed... about 14.2 but still incredibly feed efficient.

Geoff Lawton sets up grazing in pastures and then has his permaculture plantings surrounding those pastures. ( I saw someone else also mentioned this) I have done the opposite. Plantings are to the interior and horses graze in perimeter alleys, like Jaime Jackson's track system.

I question why people question a horse. They don't question a tractor. A tractor provides only one thing.... power. then we take that power and hook tools to it. We consider it necessary so it is justified. Like the tractor the equine family comes in every imaginable size and ability. You can get one to match your needs regardless of the size of property and unlike the tractor, the horse has value added properties

Absolutely, without a doubt the best privy design I have EVER seen was in the book "Three Thousand Mile Garden" It was a two seater but only one was in use at a time. Built into a hill so when it was time to remove the side that had been composting for a year, you simply went around to the downhill side, opened the door and shoved a dolly under the barrel that was halfway to good dirt. Placed a new 55 gal barrel in the privy 'basement' then retired the second hole for a year and the side with the new barrel was open for business. Personally portable privys ... privies? make me uncomfortable. For certain moments in life one wants a bit of stability.

However if you are getting ready for company and need something quickly then I would suggest that you make your wee house with 2x2's for the corners and roof framing. Make a solid deck. As your garbage can will be too large I would suggest you cut it down. If it is to be portable why bother with repeatedly digging holes to accommodate the thing? For the siding I would use a very, very old Mother Earth trick and cover it in canvas and then paint it. The door likewise a framework like a screen door structure and covered in painted canvas. You can still put a light weight metal roof on for catching rain water.... and hopefully have part of it go to a hand washing station. Lower part of the canvas in back can be framed to be a little access door. As the garbage can would be cut down you will want to put rope handles on it so you can pull it out and from there use the two wheeler dolly to get it places. Of course this would be the company's coming get out the extra euphemism type out house. But it would be cheap and for the cost of the lumber savings you could build a spare or two. For every day use, you should take a look at that book. Amazing lou!!!

On site design.... the hill where I will be starting is a long north south ridge type hill. I am still in the planning /acquisition phase. The plan is to have a backhoe come in and give me a trench running down the west side of the hill and hooking around the south end, then moving up the hill about 25-30 feet and repeating and so on. Each trench will be loaded with dead elm, straw, compost, some char, etc til I get my hugel stuff happening. The plan is something along the lines of Amazonian black earth meets hugel kultur. Terracing a safe dry place for a few bee boxes down hill. Chickens uphill. I want the majority of the plants to be marketable edibles. ( I need the income!) Ground covers can be whatever they need to be. I'm also looking at hazelnuts. Over all I think I had better cross my fingers that I win your book. I've got a feeling that I'm going to need a reference bible close by!

Here is a quandary for you... let's say I do have a black locust planted and it is getting up there in size. I've been told that the root system will be approximately the same size as the upper spread of the canopy, so let's say the locust is to a thirty foot across canopy. the roots would also be thirty foot across. Would the nitrogen fixing range also be thirty foot across? Would it be greater? Would all nitrogen fixing plants have a greater nitrogen fixing range then their own personal space? when I know that then I can start doing some real planning on what can be placed where. Then it becomes a basic math problem.

Peter, boy what a list! But it is also a perfect example of why I have hit a wall. I know I am going to need some helper plants that provide nitrogen etc, but I still have to keep the majority of the plants as food production plants. I do have black locust trees in our woods and I have thought about putting a few into my food forest BUT they get HUGE!! I have to balance how much space gets dedicated to them. I also have no idea just how much area of the food forest will be serviced by their nitrogen fixing. Will I have to place a few to service the areas needs, or a bunch? Would it be a wise investment of my space?

There is just so much information missing from lists. I have also found that on some plants the zoning recommendation is pretty optimistic. I watched some of Martin Crawford's youtube videos and he makes a good case for planting comfrey. so that is a suggestion that I am filing away to make use of. Food crops, especially multi purpose food crops will be trumps when there is a general consensus on when we have hit peak oil. Local food will be in demand in pretty short order. I want to have my farm in production when that happens.

Dave, I will soon be starting my food forest. My little farm is all hills so I am starting it in one strip that will more or less be terraced with hugel kultur type mounds, wrapping around the hills. So far the orchard will be made up of mostly heirloom apples and cherry trees. But I get really stumped on the underplantings. Especially when figuring what the best plant is for nitrogen and for fixing other nutrients as well. I want to have one area dedicated to morel mushrooms.

I am in Iowa/ zone five and I'm on what is referred to locally as a clay knob. the soil is coming back from standard agriculture followed by several stints in crp where nothing was done with it. We have spent the last few years getting ahead of the weeds. A lot of mowing to keep it organic. Last fall started making manure tea and applying. I'm also concerned about planting when I don't have the soil totally up to par, but time is of the essence. I will soon have blueberry plants and aronia berries arriving. After that... I kind of hit a wall. Suggestions please?!

The first question to ask is... what animal are you going to market this hay for? If you are selling to people with cattle then what they want around here is alfalfa and preferably in big bales. For horses, most want a straight grass hay in small squares. Alfalfa can be too rich for sheep and goats too. A little alfalfa can be good so maybe you just want to overseed.

I have horses so I am trying to get my hayfield into producing some good straight grass hay. It had been seeded to a standard crp mix, probably 25 years ago and then left neglected. All that is left is a lot of bad brome, poison parsnip and queen Ann's lace. We have been keeping it mowed and are now getting ahead of the weeds. I have started with some manure teas that I mix with fish emulsion, molasses, epsom salts, and bone meal. I haven't been able to afford a sprayer yet so have just been hauling the tea out in tubs in the back of the pick up and tossing it willy-nilly. Not perfect but better then nothing. I am wanting to save up some money for lime.

I understand the idea of disking. It was explained to me that you don't want to set it deep and you don't want to turn over anything. But it opens the ground like aeration and makes a place for seed to go, if you are overseeding an existing hayfield. It will also allow more moisture to get into the soil *if* you accomplish it in spring. It is something you want to do before you seed or feed.

Then there is the question of the grass types. It isn't just the grass itself and the nutrients but whether or not it has endophyte issues, etc. Most grasses are pushed because they are what the industrial cattle market can use. I will be going old school and seeding some orchard grass to start and slowly work at complimenting that. Hopefully as I fix the soil the native grasses will return. They are now even questioning health issues of clover for horses. But my good news is that I already have someone I can direct market to if I can get my grass up to par.

My BIG picture is to put a hedge row/ forest garden completely around my hayfield so that i have the best of both worlds. Composted waste from the horses and garden will all end up on the hayfield and that is more then enough garden to keep me busy as the hayfield is right around 22 acres. My pasture will be handled differently. Because of the hoof wear and tear, bunch grasses will be discouraged and I want to try to seed pasture to a combination of buffalo grass and bluegrass. Both are sods but don't get the height on them that most hay grass requires. I also need to start importing earth worms. I don't know exactly what all my land has endured, but even after three enlistments in the crp program the worms have not returned. I need to jump start that process.

Of course there is that caveat that I could be totally wrong, but after three years of cleaning up weeds, cutting thistle, mowing, picking up handfuls of soil and spending a lot of time starring at grass, this is the plan that I have come up with.

If pines will work well, I wonder if stone pines would fit the bill. Then you could get some value added with the pine nuts.

Craig, I don't know about some of the trees you mentioned, but the ash has pretty much been locked down here because of the emerald ash borer. It hasn't gotten to the state yet but is getting very close, so ashes are no longer available at garden centers the state nursery, etc.

If oaks do well with blueberries then I wonder if other nuts would do well. I am interested in hazelnuts. Talked to a nurseryman in Canada who told me that my area is perfect for them.

Seems I read this last spring that nasturtiums would fix nitrogen..... I'm not sure though. It has been awhile since I was researching that, though I do remember that the same article said that apples and mushrooms love each other.

I have been giving this a lot of thought. I was watching a hugel kultur video where a fella said that the fruit grown on the east and the north of the hugel was far sweeter, tastier, etc. Made me wonder if it would be the way to go if you made your hugels running north/south and planted strawberries or asparagus on the east and the blueberries on the west. I know there would be some shade issues but to be honest it was so incredibly flippin' hot in Iowa this summer the only things that did well were plants that got shade. Anyway, it is something I would like to try. also thinking of doing some of the hugels with elderberries on the west. And was amazed to see a picture of huckleberries on a thread here the other day. so they didn't just invent huckleberries for Huckleberry Hound!!

Do you guys think this would work out okay?

I haven't seen any mention of hay. If you don't live in a moderate climate where you can just keep up the rotational grazing, then you will need to have at least a small hayfield.